Sure, it’s convenient to blame the sound guy, the fucking cockwad drummer, your mom, or any number of people for why things went wrong at your last show. But that sort of misses the mark, doesn’t it?
This post is dedicated to showing YOU (I mean you, Mr. Reader) how to analyze your own egomaniacal pitfalls when it comes to playing out live.
Guitar Players: Playing at a small/medium sized venue like Charm City Art Space does not call for a full 100 watt Marshall stack. You crank that thing past 4 and you’re basically going to blow out everyone’s eardrums (including your own) and piss off the management, because 50% of the crowd is going to immediately walk out the door.
Plus, dude, see that little black thing pointing at ONE of your 8 speakers? That’s a microphone. It takes the sound coming out of your amp and brings it to the mixing board. Then, the sound guy/girl (the person paid by the venue specifically to make you sound good) EQs the signal from that microphone to get rid of your shrill ice-pick-to-the-brain tone, and sends the resulting, now moderately pleasant audio to speakers that are much bigger and more balanced than your little 12-inch Celestions.
But if your amp is so loud it’s overpowering everything else in the room, the sound person can’t do shit aside from scream at you the entire set to turn it down. And the rest of your band (aside from the drummer, who we’ll get to in a second) is going to be pissed that nobody in the audience could hear anything they were singing/playing.
Drummers: Why do you need 6 toms and 8 cymbals for a show at The Windup Space? It looks ridiculous, it’s impossible to mic, and it just annoys the bands before and after your set who have to wait 30 minutes for you to get that crap on and off the stage.
Believe it or not, some people actually manage to play perfectly well (i.e., better than you) with one tom, one snare, and one cymbal:
Drummers (you get two): If you’re playing in a place the size of a coffee shop, why are you hitting your kit like you’re in a stadium?
Play softer.
If you can’t play softer, use brushes instead of sticks. If you can’t do that then put some muffles on your drums and cymbals. And if you can’t do that then you shouldn’t be playing the gig. Go home.
Bass players: I understand that you need big speakers in order to get those low bass notes. But with the shitty acoustics of most venues, nobody can hear the notes you’re playing, no matter how loud you turn up. So don’t bother; you’re just adding to the mess. Make it as loud as it needs to be for you to hear it, and call it a night. 99% of the time the sound person is going to take a DI line straight out of your amp into the board, and control the volume from there. Trust the sound person. They know their crappy space and how to get the bass to be semi-audible. If you’re trying to overpower them with your amp, they’re just going to turn the DI down, and now all of your attack and clarity is gone and you sound like a big pile of muddy turds.
Vocalists: We all feel bad for you. You’re the only “instrument” that most of the audience gives a shit about, but most of the time we can’t hear or understand a word you’re saying. And if we can by chance hear you, in all likelihood you’re singing out of tune because your monitors won’t cut through the drummer, guitarist, and bassist without feeding back, so you can’t hear yourself. Sucks to be you. You should probably fire your band.
Key Takeaways: Once you’ve recognized the problems of your live setup, it’s time for each band member to analyze what they can do individually to make the whole band sound better. Most of the time it involves losing the ego about your specific job and focusing on the big picture.
Your Big Amp Is Annoying is written by Ryan Graham, lead guitarist and producer for The Dirty Marmaduke Flute Squad. Next Week: The tried and true methods of downsizing your live set up or how The Dirty Marmaduke Flute Squad manages to do their best to sound great (even though we suck and everyone knows it.)
You are clearly a douche bag. Once your band is important enough to dictate policy, which will likely never happen, just keep playing your crappy "music" and leave the playing to those who can. Bite me.
You’re certainly entitled to that opinion. This is not really an attempt to "dictate policy." I stated that clearly in this blog’s intro post (check it out here: http://bit.ly/intropost ). We are actually trying to save new bands alot of time by telling them what we have done correctly and what we have positively fucked up in the past. I think there’s an audience out there for it, I guess it’s not you. I’d be willing to hear some suggestions for content that you think would be relevant so, leave an email addy next time. Have a great one!
The fact that [the above commenter] did not actually take substantive issue with any of your (very good) advice tells you all you need to know. [Commenter], if you have any feedback, meaning actual substantive arguments against the suggestions made here, I’d be genuinely interested in hearing it.
[comment edited to correct name mixup]
….Who the hell mics anything other than the singer in a small room? Also, many amps don’t sound as good quiet as they do cranked. Also, this is rock and roll. The retirement home might get pissed, but you’re not there to be quiet.
Thanks for commenting, EUripidespants!
95% of the venues we play have decent PAs with a sound person, so that’s what this series is geared towards: how to get the best sound through the PA to mains (and thus, to the audience!). We’ve almost universally found that if you give sound people the option between mic’ing an amp and being able to control the mix from the board, and not mic’ing the amp and having the band control the volume from stage, they’ll pick mic’ing it every time!
Also, keep in mind that we’re talking about stage volume here, not volume coming from the mains. We definitely hope that the sound person makes it loud for the audience!
When there isn’t a sound person or a decent PA, you’re correct that we usually just mic the vocals, but even then (actually, especially then, since at that point you’re essentially mixing yourself and REALLY need to be able to hear everything else that’s happening) a guitar amp bigger than 20w is major overkill.
Finally, you’re absolutely right that some amps need to be cranked for a good sound. That’s why we’re recommending getting a 5-20w amp, so that you can crank it and get that sound, but still have a volume level low enough for small to mid-sized rooms. Or if you really love the sound of your Marshall 100w cranked, you can get a power attenuator that will still let you drive the amp but cut the volume before it gets to the speakers!
Keep the comments coming, everyone. This could turn out to be a great discussion!
Thanks for the support Sherwood! We’re also interested in hearing any and all constructive feedback. We’re just one band, and I’m sure there a lot of other bands who do things completely differently but still have great sound. If you’re in such a band, please post some tips!
Big amps or small, if they aren’t mic’d for the onstage mix nobody can hear everyone else well enough for a decent audience mix to be achieved without mic’ing for the mains. And, unless you’re in a band that plays everything exactly the same way night after night, its almost impossible to constructively jam, which takes being able to hear what everyone else is playing. Just my $0.02.
Very true, tubeguitarampsnc! And personally, I actually LIKE to hear what all of my bandmates are playing! It’s part of the joy of playing live. I don’t want to hear only my guitar for the whole show! Again, if the stage volume is low enough, a good sound person can give you an awesome monitor mix that won’t feedback and that will allow everyone in the band to hear each other, which is conducive to jamming, and also to feeding off each other for a good vibe that will hopefully get the crowd excited!
I played in a band that opened for a regional act that had several Marshall stacks. The sound guy laughed when I walked in with my 33 watt DR Z combo, asking me how I expected to play with such a small amp (compared to their stacks). When he miked it, he kept asking me to turn it down. (the venue was a medium size hall that held about 250-300 people). I told him I was on "1" and couldn’t turn down anymore. He didn’t believe me but was shocked when he checked the amp himself.
So I brought out my attentuator, set it on max attentuation and cranked the amp to 10 to get the tubes cooking.
The sound guy was a happy guy after that and later apologized for "dissing" my "little" amp. He and the headline act’s guitar player loved my "little" 33 watt combo. His big stacks: sounded like mud and noise.
Stage volume (what the band hears) is very important. If you are not using in-ear monitors (IEMs) then it is essential to keep the stage volume controlled and reasonable. Vocalists should be able to clearly hear themselves through the monitors. Smaller amps, miked through the front of house system (even if it is only a small club system) can be very effective in honing a great sound.
And a smaller powered amp can be cranked to get the tubes cooking to get the best tone and response from the amp, without overpowering the stage volume or causing the audiences ears to bleed.
The only people who really believe that the louder the better= self-indulgent musicians that are not considerate of what the audience really wants.
Ha! Great story!
Unfortunately it seems like a high percentage of bands consist of "self indulgent musicians that are not considerate of what the audience really wants". The volume is usually only a small manifestation of this. Hmmm, perhaps that should be another blog post: "How to Not Act Like a Douche When Playing Live".
Its supposed to hurt. The audience is always wrong.
That’s pretty punk, alexsbrother. But I don’t think they’ll buy our merch if we hurt them.
total whack bull – ask Joe Bonamassa about your stupid little 33 watter – lol – real musicians use 100 watt tube amps and play at a volume complimenting the entire band- please bands like you should stop playing and giving info -
I provided sound at a venue where the first band (under a different soundman) was very loud. In other words the crowd was pinned against the back wall of a long room. The primary leaseholder threatened to pull the plug if the next bands didn’t turn down. It took awhile, but by the time the last band played, people were gathered near the stage. The biggest difference? Persuading the band to put the guitar amps at the sides of the stage and pointing the amps toward the band.
if you knew anything about guitar rigs, you would understand that in some cases speakers like to be pushed hard, and tubes enjoy being overdriven. furthermore, if most sound men in small venues knew the first thing about sound reenforcement you might have a few valid points; however, most know nothing about anything…. in terms of your problems with the volume, try a little harder not to be such a pussy. if the kitchen is too hot, get out geek.
Joe Bonamassa is a fine musician, jb, but I’m not going to take any gear tips from him because we play completely different types of music. That said, there are many blues players who use low wattage amps, especially in the studio (Clapton used a 7w Champ for Layla).
Plus, aren’t you mic’ing it? If so, why not just boost the guitar in the monitors if you want all your bandmates to hear you?
Hi, "shut up and play your crappy music", glad you enjoyed the post enough to respond! Thanks for the feedback. Tubes definitely enjoy being driven, and that’s why we’re recommending getting a low-wattage amp, so you can crank it as far as it’ll go and drive the piss out of the tubes without blowing out the venue.
Jabney, I feel for you. I ran sound for years at a bunch of different venues, and it’s tough getting people to change. But once people hear how much better they sound when they do things properly, it’s not that tough to win them over. That’s why I very highly recommend that bands get someone to record their performances, figure out why the sound is bad, make some changes for the next performance, and listen to those tapes to see if the problem is fixed. If not, rinse and repeat.
driving the hell out of low wattage amps is not a new idea…. yes, fender champs and other low wattage circuits have been used on more recordings than perhaps most people realize. however, good luck in hearing yourself in live situations over a dynamic drummer. relying exclusively on the monitors, and sound systems of small toilet venues is a joke.
i’ve played more rock concerts on both sides of the pond than you’ve had hot lunches, and comparing the sound reenforcement principles practiced in mid-level venues or arenas to what goes on in small toilets is a mistake. any professional band will know how to handle smaller clubs and will make the proper adjustments. part of those adjustments will include factoring in the "soundman," house system, room materials and dimensions, etc.
telling a drummer to baffle the drums and stifle his or her dynamic range, or a guitarist to change her amp rig, etc., is arrogant… and you should be encouraged to put a lid on it. what qualifies you to have an opinion on the types of tools people use to create their art?
while it’s true that a lower stage volumes give the sound "engineer" more control over the mix, in many cases that scenario is less than desirable. unless that same soundman is attending rehearsals and knows the material. seems like you’ve put a lot of work into this site, perhaps your time would be better spent improving your own sound.
Thanks again, "shut up and play your crappy music". We’ve spent years doing just what you recommend, which is trying to improve our sound. This series of articles shows what we learned worked best for OUR band and for the venues that WE play!
We’re also sharing our experiences with seeing live bands in similar venues, and noticing that their refusal to reduce their volume level (yes, even the drummer!) alienated the very people who were there to see them. Not to say that these bands have to change a single thing about their setup, but they should at least know that by playing so loud they’re losing fans.
We realize that there are plenty of bands out there that play different sorts of music in different sorts of venues, and we’d love to hear about their experiences and how they managed to get the best sound for their band. Hell, "shut up and play your crappy music", if you’ve done a lot of stadium-sized gigs, we’d love it if you’d write a guest post on this site about that experience so we can all learn from the mistakes and successes you’ve had in getting the best sound for your band in that scenario.
so, here is my advice now that you’ve asked for it. publishing your diatribes on cl musician forums is turning people off, and probably more than the loud bands you’re complaining about. in my opinion, it’s a mistake to "alienate" anyone that can potentially help you. which is exactly what you’re doing when your band becomes implicated by your obvious tendencies to need to control what other people are doing. positioning yourself as being concerned for the fan bases of loud bands doesn’t make your unsolicited advice any easier to digest. that’s really i all i have to say regarding your article, i’ve spent too much time here already. i hope this helps.
Thanks again for your input "shut up and play your crappy music", and for the time you’ve spent writing down your thoughts for everyone!
For the record, while our CL posts might be a little inflamatory, we don’t want to alienate any bands. When a local band succeeds, we all succeed! If fans go out to see shows and leave happy they’re more likely to come to see other shows, and that’s good for all of us hard-working musicians!
We just want to give other musicians the fruits of what we’ve learned from our (many) mistakes over the years. Maybe some bands are just starting out and can’t figure out why when they start playing everyone either moves to the back of the room or leaves the venue altogether. Hopefully our hard-learned lessons about stage volume at smaller venues will help such bands figure out a little more quickly what they can do to improve their live sound, and in turn make their fans happier and keep them coming back.
This is a great dialogue, though, and we really hope everyone continues to add to the discussion!
I could not resist posting on this topic. I found this blog on craigslist and decided to check it out simply for shits and giggles. I definately got the giggles – I laughed my ass off! The articles have been both entertaining and insightful and unfortunately I think a lot of people miss the important lil bits of advice thrown in. I had been in exile from playing in a band after a horrible case of LSD ( Lead Singer Disease)
sucked the fun out of something I love – playing guitar. Charm City Artspace??? I had never heard of it until I read about it on here! That place is "Rock and Roll" and truly about the passion for local music. So thanks for that tip.
Now- to the real reason I had to post – I love a Marshall stack dimed out til I can feel my insides changing positions. But as a MUSICIAN my job is to serve the song and entertain the audience. To call someone a "pussy" as was so endearingly put because they talk about using smaller amps with lower wattage is a chump thing to do.I can do just as much with a strat, a catalanbread clean boost, and a lil fender blues junior as you can do with a raging Marshall. The real difference – I’m still gonna have gobs of tone, my amp is still gonna be responsive to my playing dynamics ( it really is all in your hands) , asses are STILL gonna be shakin on the dance floor AND the best part…..wait for it….the guys in my band are all gonna come through loud and clear so they can shine too. The only concession I may have to make if i want that sweet Hendrixy type feedback at the drop of a hat is something along the lines of a Fernandes sustainer pickup. And I think you missed the real point of the article…….these guys here are simply pointing out what they found that works for them…I don’t recall them forcing anything down your throat. If I’m not mistaken the tagline to the website is "we fail so you dont have to".
Gentleman,please keep up the great work with the website. It’s nice to see people actually enjoying themselves with the music instead of getting all high strung and walking around with their dick in the dirt.
I’ll be catching one of your shows to see if you have as much fun onstage as ya do here. Again, great job,
Oh—just a footnote, I believe the solo to Stairway to Heaven was recorded wtih a telecaster thru a single speaker 7 watt Supro amp. Anyone wanna call Jimmy Page a "pussy" LOL
Hey Jim, thanks so much for your post! Always nice to hear positive comments, especially when they’re well-informed.
Yeah, nice-sounding feedback can be tough without some volume, but is definitely do-able if you get close enough to the speaker. The Fernandez Sustainer is a great alternative, though!
Unfortunately we don’t have any shows lined up over the next few months because we’re working on hard on finishing our new CD. But the CD Release party will be in the 2nd week of October, so keep an eye out for that. And if you’re playing out anytime soon feel free to stop back in an post a link to your site.
dude im not gonna let the sound guy handle things, MOST sound guys suck and hired by the club they are working at for a weekend gig, alot of sound guys aren't even that familiar with the equipment they are running, every band that i have seen super loud, YOB, neurosis, early graves, converge, etc sounded way better than most bands that try to keep everything at a "safe volume" i myself have had moments playing live where the sound guy would have my half stack so low in volume my amp sound like it was being processed through a tin can and also cause the guy didnt know how to mic a guitar cab he put the mic directly facing the cabs speakers, i trust my ears and my ears say louder is better